At the post-foreclosure, the property has been foreclosed and taken back by the lender. These pieces of property are known as “real estate owned” or REO. The easiest way to buy foreclosed property is by buying REOs. These “real estate owned” homes always have a clear title, which saves time, expense and general worries about foreclosures. Also, the lender or bank will most likely pay the property taxes in arrears (an unpaid debt). The lender may either repair the property or give a discount to the buyer to make repairs.
We have all seen late night infomercials joyfully telling us how to buy foreclosed properties from banks. They explain how the banks are so eager to rid themselves of this property that they are willing to sell for much less than market value. You will supposedly be helping the bank with their real estate problems and make a “killing” in the process. Happy millionaire couples are then shown in their mansions or on their yachts which they supposedly purchased with the real estate profits they made from the banks.
Real estate property owned by banks (REO) refers to a property that has gone through the foreclosure process. The bank or loan company has foreclosed on the property and it has reverted back to the lender. Any attempt to sell at pre-foreclosure or foreclosure auction has failed.
When the bank owns the property, there is no longer an existing mortgage loan. If the property is still occupied, the bank will handle the eviction process. However, if you buy the property and wish to allow the previous owners to remain as rent-paying tenants, you are free to do so. The bank will also pay off any amount due to homeowners associations. In addition, they will negotiate with the IRS for removal of taxes owed.
However, REO purchases should not be considered free of risks. The bank may make some minor repairs but in the majority of situations, the property will be sold in an “as is” condition meaning it will remain in the condition it was in when initially repossessed. Considering that the prior owners obviously had financial difficulties for at least three months, potential buyers of REO should keep in mind that any major repairs needed would not have been done during this time.
Consequently, it is important to have the property inspected by a professional to find out its actual condition and market worth. A comparison market value should be carried out. You should also keep in mind the amount of money renovations will cost you to add to the amount of the purchase price to the bank.
Do not be fooled by the myth that REO’s are great bargains! Banks have to answer to shareholders and have no desire to quickly get rid of a foreclosed property at a low price.
If you are satisfied with the information provided by the home inspector, now is the time to make an offer to the bank. It is important to include a Section 1 – Pest Certification – to be sure there is not a termite problem on the property. The bank will probably not pay for it but if all inspections are not completed by the time you make your offer, your offer should include a contingency clause that allows you to terminate the sale if unanticipated damages are found – within a specified period of time – that the bank will not correct.
Additionally, banks do not usually provide financing on their REOs. However, it would be especially helpful to obtain bank funding if there was extensive damage to the property they are selling “as is”.
If, based on the information you have received from inspection reports, you are satisfied that the market value of the property meets your expectations and you have made an initial offer to the bank, be prepared for them to provide you with a counter-offer. The usual procedure for the industry is for the bank to ask you for a higher price than you have offered. If you are willing to pay the higher price and accept their offer, the bank will then draw up a contract. As with all legal documents, it is important to have the contract checked by your attorney.
Remember that banks are closed on evenings and weekends. They usually have a department of 3 to 4 people devoted especially to REOs and decisions are not made as quickly as we would like.
Wednesday, February 14, 2007
Wednesday, February 7, 2007
Just Listed Foreclosures
336 W GARLAND - FRESNO3 Bedrooms - 2 Bath
1,344 Sq.Ft. - 8,100 Sq.Ft. Lot
Built in 1950
Asking Price $266,000
Clean, updated, wood & aggregate floors, dual pane windows, huge garage with carport, lots of charm, perfect for a first time buyer more info
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2617 E NORWICH - FRESNO4 Bedroom - 2 Bath
1,188 Sq.Ft - 6,100 Sq.Ft Lot
Built in 1954
Asking Price $216,000
Needs minor TLC, mostly carpet, paint, has detached garage, wrought iron fence in front, walking distance to Fashion Fair, make a great rental property. more infoFriday, January 26, 2007
Housing defaults, foreclosures rise in FresnoMarket downturn, wide use of alternative loans blamed.
Foreclosures in Fresno County more than quadrupled in the fourth quarter from last year — a sign, analysts say, that a day of reckoning is coming for thousands of home buyers who used unconventional loans. Rising interest rates and lagging appreciation are conspiring to cause financial fits for thousands of homeowners in the central San Joaquin Valley and California, many of whom used adjustable-rate and 100% financing for their purchases. Statewide, the number of default notices — the first step in the foreclosure process — climbed a whopping 145% in the fourth quarter of 2006 from a year earlier to the highest level in eight years, according to Data Quick Information Systems, a real estate tracking service. About a third of homeowners headed into foreclosure actually lost their houses. That compared with 8% last year, when the market was hotter and homeowners could more easily get out of trouble by selling. No region was immune, and many real estate agents who specialize in distressed properties expect the numbers to grow. "This is just the first wave," said Shannon Martin of Mid-State Realty in Fresno. "Within the next few years, you'll see more foreclosures coming."
The increase in default notices ranged from 63.2% in San Francisco to 471.7% in Stanislaus County. In Tulare County, the increase in default notices was 138.5%, while the actual number of properties returning to the lender totaled 57, a 470% hike. Real estate agent Mike Schuil of Visalia said foreclosures are definitely on the upswing in Tulare County. In Fresno County, the increase of defaults was 104.4%, while the number of houses going back to the lender was 110, up 450%, DataQuick reported. Still, the numbers remain modest by historical standards. The average number of foreclosures in Fresno County since 1998 is 142. DataQuick spokesman Andrew LePage said inland California often has higher foreclosure rates because the lower home prices attract more first-time buyers and those with modest incomes. "Folks with modest means are always closer to the financial edge" and are more vulnerable to market changes, he said. DataQuick officials say they need more time before coming to any conclusions, in part because a robust real estate market last year kept numbers down. "We're in the midst of an adjusting market right now, and we won't know until spring or summer if this is ominous or not," said Marshall Prentice, DataQuick's president. Most of the loans that went into default originated between January 2005 and February 2006. Their average age was 15 months, and the typical borrower was five months behind on payments. Locally, real estate agents and credit counselors have seen huge jumps in foreclosure-related activity. Martin, who specializes in selling foreclosed properties for lenders, said such listings he handles climbed from 10 to 70 in the past six months. "People who bought their houses within the last year or two with zero down are at the high-water mark," he said. "As the values have decreased, they owe more than the house is worth." Martin said he has foreclosure listings in all price ranges and geographic areas. "I've got them from $640,000 to $120,000. They are all over," he said. That's because many of the families bought the houses with adjustable-rate or subprime loans. "It's no surprise," said Martha Lucey, executive vice president of ByDesign Financial Solutions, a nonprofit credit counseling organization in Fresno. "Over 60% of the loans nationally have been the nonfixed-rate type, and we've anticipated consumers running into trouble when rates adjust." The number of phone calls to her housing credit counselors has increased threefold over the past six months. Many of those families are first-time home buyers who have little or no equity in their houses. Many should have thought twice about buying the house they did, she said. "It is wishful thinking," she said. "They believe they will be earning more later or will be able to refinance into a different loan product in a few years." The story is the same throughout California and the nation. More than 1.2 million foreclosure filings were reported in the United States in 2006, up 42% from 2005. That's a rate of one foreclosure filing per every 92 households, according to RealtyTrac, an online marketplace for foreclosure properties. Those families who bought their houses within the past few years are at the greatest risk. Many can't sell them for enough to pay off principal, or are unable to refinance the loans, analysts say. As a result, the number of "short sales," where the bank allows the sellers to lower the price enough to find a buyer, has increased, said Gary Kittredge of Realty Concepts. Martin said many of the buyers obtained loans they shouldn't have. "From what I'm seeing, people were put into 100% financing loans that weren't properly underwritten," he said. Lucey said the lenders and borrowers are equally at fault. "In some cases, the consumers didn't understand their financial position or the family budget. And in other cases, the issues are with lenders who didn't help buyers understand the implications of the loan they were getting into," she said. Lucey said borrowers should call the lender when they run into financial trouble. Often, they can work out a plan where the payments are restructured until the deficit is cured.
The increase in default notices ranged from 63.2% in San Francisco to 471.7% in Stanislaus County. In Tulare County, the increase in default notices was 138.5%, while the actual number of properties returning to the lender totaled 57, a 470% hike. Real estate agent Mike Schuil of Visalia said foreclosures are definitely on the upswing in Tulare County. In Fresno County, the increase of defaults was 104.4%, while the number of houses going back to the lender was 110, up 450%, DataQuick reported. Still, the numbers remain modest by historical standards. The average number of foreclosures in Fresno County since 1998 is 142. DataQuick spokesman Andrew LePage said inland California often has higher foreclosure rates because the lower home prices attract more first-time buyers and those with modest incomes. "Folks with modest means are always closer to the financial edge" and are more vulnerable to market changes, he said. DataQuick officials say they need more time before coming to any conclusions, in part because a robust real estate market last year kept numbers down. "We're in the midst of an adjusting market right now, and we won't know until spring or summer if this is ominous or not," said Marshall Prentice, DataQuick's president. Most of the loans that went into default originated between January 2005 and February 2006. Their average age was 15 months, and the typical borrower was five months behind on payments. Locally, real estate agents and credit counselors have seen huge jumps in foreclosure-related activity. Martin, who specializes in selling foreclosed properties for lenders, said such listings he handles climbed from 10 to 70 in the past six months. "People who bought their houses within the last year or two with zero down are at the high-water mark," he said. "As the values have decreased, they owe more than the house is worth." Martin said he has foreclosure listings in all price ranges and geographic areas. "I've got them from $640,000 to $120,000. They are all over," he said. That's because many of the families bought the houses with adjustable-rate or subprime loans. "It's no surprise," said Martha Lucey, executive vice president of ByDesign Financial Solutions, a nonprofit credit counseling organization in Fresno. "Over 60% of the loans nationally have been the nonfixed-rate type, and we've anticipated consumers running into trouble when rates adjust." The number of phone calls to her housing credit counselors has increased threefold over the past six months. Many of those families are first-time home buyers who have little or no equity in their houses. Many should have thought twice about buying the house they did, she said. "It is wishful thinking," she said. "They believe they will be earning more later or will be able to refinance into a different loan product in a few years." The story is the same throughout California and the nation. More than 1.2 million foreclosure filings were reported in the United States in 2006, up 42% from 2005. That's a rate of one foreclosure filing per every 92 households, according to RealtyTrac, an online marketplace for foreclosure properties. Those families who bought their houses within the past few years are at the greatest risk. Many can't sell them for enough to pay off principal, or are unable to refinance the loans, analysts say. As a result, the number of "short sales," where the bank allows the sellers to lower the price enough to find a buyer, has increased, said Gary Kittredge of Realty Concepts. Martin said many of the buyers obtained loans they shouldn't have. "From what I'm seeing, people were put into 100% financing loans that weren't properly underwritten," he said. Lucey said the lenders and borrowers are equally at fault. "In some cases, the consumers didn't understand their financial position or the family budget. And in other cases, the issues are with lenders who didn't help buyers understand the implications of the loan they were getting into," she said. Lucey said borrowers should call the lender when they run into financial trouble. Often, they can work out a plan where the payments are restructured until the deficit is cured.
Thursday, January 18, 2007
California Foreclosure Laws
California Foreclosure is Non-Judicial.
California Foreclosure Timeline
Day 1-Day 90
Redemption Period
Lasts 90 days from the recordation of the Notice of Default
Day 90-Day 120
Publication Period
Lasts 30 days from the end of Redemption
Day 120-Day 141
Trustee's Sale
Held 21 days after first publication
Redemption Period
Once the Notice of Default records the foreclosure time frame begins. California foreclosure law states that within 10 business days a copy of the recorded Notice of Default is sent by certified and regular mail to the borrowers at all addresses provided and any recorded special requests. Within 30 days a copy of the Notice of Default is sent by certified and regular mail to new owners and all junior lien holders to the Deed of Trust being foreclosed. A Trustee's Sale Guarantee Report is ordered from the title company providing all title information. The foreclosure remains dormant for the next 60 days unless the borrower makes contact to cure.
Publication Period
California foreclosure law states that the publication period begins once the redemption period has expired. A Notice of Trustee's Sale is prepared and published in an adjudicated paper of general circulation in the city in which the property is located. The Notice of Trustee's Sale is published one time per week for three weeks. The actual Sale is established by adding at least 20 days to the date that the Notice of Trustee's Sale was first published in the newspaper. The Notice of Trustee's Sale is posted on the property and in a public place. At least 14 days period to Sale date the Notice of Trustee's Sale must be recorded in the county in which the property is located.
Trustee's Sale
California foreclosure law states that on the day that was established for sale of the property, and only after all publication period requirements have been met, the property is sold to the highest bidder for cash for the full amount of the debt plus foreclosure fee and expenses. If no one bids at the Trustee's Sale, the property automatically reverts back to the beneficiary for the debt. A Trustee's Deed Upon Sale is recorded in the county in which the property is located transferring title to the foreclosing beneficiary allowing the marketing of the property to recover their debt.
All sales under a power of sale in a deed of trust will be made between the hours of 9:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. on any business day, Monday through Friday, at the time specified in the notice of trustee sale. The sale must be made a public auction to the highest bidder. The trustee has the right to require every bidder to show evidence of ability to pay the full bid in cash, cashier�s check or certain bank checks. Each bid is by law an irrevocable offer to purchase. However, a higher bid cancels an earlier bid. It is unlawful and a criminal offense (a fine of $10,000 or up to one year in jail) to offer anyone consideration not to bid, or to fix or restrain the bidding process in any manner. Debtors may reinstate up to five days before non-judicial foreclosure sale.
Junior lien holders may no longer redeem, so they may try to protect themselves by (1) advancing funds to bring the senior loan payments current, then foreclosing for the sums advanced; (2) bidding at the foreclosure sale so the price will be sufficient to pay off the senior and the junior liens; or (3) acquire the property by bidding at the foreclosure. If the debtor has a right to redeem and does so, the junior who purchased the home must be reimbursed. Junior liens do not reattach the property if a borrower redeems a senior lien whose foreclosure extinguished the junior. This helps borrowers by encouraging the junior to bid up to the property to fair market value at the foreclosure sale, or else lose out, giving borrowers closer to fair value at sale.
Lenders may not seek a deficiency judgment if (1) the foreclosure is non-judicial or if (2) foreclosure is on a purchase money obligation. The same rules do not apply to guarantee or later lien holders. The lenders may seize alternative collateral. If the lender forecloses by filing a lawsuit, then the lender can obtain both a foreclosure sale order and a judgment against the borrower for a deficiency after the court-ordered sale, but only for the difference between the judgment and the fair value of the security.
VA Loans
An appraisal should be ordered through an authorized VA appraiser 60 days from the recording of the Notice of Default. A completed VA567 from should be sent to the local VA office with a copy of the Notice of Trustee's Sale and Trustee's Sale Guarantee once publication of the Notice of Trustee's Sale has begun. A Corporation Grant Deed should be prepared conveying title from the foreclosing beneficiary to the proper governmental agency.
FHA Loans
A Notice to Occupant of Pending Acquisition should be mailed to mortgagee with a copy of the cover letter to the local FHA office. A Corporation Grant Deed should be prepared conveying title from the foreclosing beneficiary to the proper governmental agency. If the property is occupied, an eviction process must be started to convey the title to FHA unoccupied. Once eviction complete, record Corporation Grant Deed and issue title package to FHA for Title Approval Record Corporation Grant Deed and issue FHA 27011 Part A.
California Foreclosure Timeline
Day 1-Day 90
Redemption Period
Lasts 90 days from the recordation of the Notice of Default
Day 90-Day 120
Publication Period
Lasts 30 days from the end of Redemption
Day 120-Day 141
Trustee's Sale
Held 21 days after first publication
Redemption Period
Once the Notice of Default records the foreclosure time frame begins. California foreclosure law states that within 10 business days a copy of the recorded Notice of Default is sent by certified and regular mail to the borrowers at all addresses provided and any recorded special requests. Within 30 days a copy of the Notice of Default is sent by certified and regular mail to new owners and all junior lien holders to the Deed of Trust being foreclosed. A Trustee's Sale Guarantee Report is ordered from the title company providing all title information. The foreclosure remains dormant for the next 60 days unless the borrower makes contact to cure.
Publication Period
California foreclosure law states that the publication period begins once the redemption period has expired. A Notice of Trustee's Sale is prepared and published in an adjudicated paper of general circulation in the city in which the property is located. The Notice of Trustee's Sale is published one time per week for three weeks. The actual Sale is established by adding at least 20 days to the date that the Notice of Trustee's Sale was first published in the newspaper. The Notice of Trustee's Sale is posted on the property and in a public place. At least 14 days period to Sale date the Notice of Trustee's Sale must be recorded in the county in which the property is located.
Trustee's Sale
California foreclosure law states that on the day that was established for sale of the property, and only after all publication period requirements have been met, the property is sold to the highest bidder for cash for the full amount of the debt plus foreclosure fee and expenses. If no one bids at the Trustee's Sale, the property automatically reverts back to the beneficiary for the debt. A Trustee's Deed Upon Sale is recorded in the county in which the property is located transferring title to the foreclosing beneficiary allowing the marketing of the property to recover their debt.
All sales under a power of sale in a deed of trust will be made between the hours of 9:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. on any business day, Monday through Friday, at the time specified in the notice of trustee sale. The sale must be made a public auction to the highest bidder. The trustee has the right to require every bidder to show evidence of ability to pay the full bid in cash, cashier�s check or certain bank checks. Each bid is by law an irrevocable offer to purchase. However, a higher bid cancels an earlier bid. It is unlawful and a criminal offense (a fine of $10,000 or up to one year in jail) to offer anyone consideration not to bid, or to fix or restrain the bidding process in any manner. Debtors may reinstate up to five days before non-judicial foreclosure sale.
Junior lien holders may no longer redeem, so they may try to protect themselves by (1) advancing funds to bring the senior loan payments current, then foreclosing for the sums advanced; (2) bidding at the foreclosure sale so the price will be sufficient to pay off the senior and the junior liens; or (3) acquire the property by bidding at the foreclosure. If the debtor has a right to redeem and does so, the junior who purchased the home must be reimbursed. Junior liens do not reattach the property if a borrower redeems a senior lien whose foreclosure extinguished the junior. This helps borrowers by encouraging the junior to bid up to the property to fair market value at the foreclosure sale, or else lose out, giving borrowers closer to fair value at sale.
Lenders may not seek a deficiency judgment if (1) the foreclosure is non-judicial or if (2) foreclosure is on a purchase money obligation. The same rules do not apply to guarantee or later lien holders. The lenders may seize alternative collateral. If the lender forecloses by filing a lawsuit, then the lender can obtain both a foreclosure sale order and a judgment against the borrower for a deficiency after the court-ordered sale, but only for the difference between the judgment and the fair value of the security.
VA Loans
An appraisal should be ordered through an authorized VA appraiser 60 days from the recording of the Notice of Default. A completed VA567 from should be sent to the local VA office with a copy of the Notice of Trustee's Sale and Trustee's Sale Guarantee once publication of the Notice of Trustee's Sale has begun. A Corporation Grant Deed should be prepared conveying title from the foreclosing beneficiary to the proper governmental agency.
FHA Loans
A Notice to Occupant of Pending Acquisition should be mailed to mortgagee with a copy of the cover letter to the local FHA office. A Corporation Grant Deed should be prepared conveying title from the foreclosing beneficiary to the proper governmental agency. If the property is occupied, an eviction process must be started to convey the title to FHA unoccupied. Once eviction complete, record Corporation Grant Deed and issue title package to FHA for Title Approval Record Corporation Grant Deed and issue FHA 27011 Part A.
Thursday, January 11, 2007
Foreclosure Listings Browse Listings For Free
5002 E OLIVE AVE - FRESNO
Asking Price $236,500
Bedrooms - 3 / Bathrooms - 5
Square Feet-1,574 / LotSize-6,720
19249 AVENUE 18-MADERA
Asking Price $624,000
Bedrooms - 4 / Bathrooms - 3
Square Feet - 2,180 / Lot Size - 20 Acres
Wednesday, January 10, 2007
Free List Of Fresno Bank Owned Homes
N. MITRE - FRESNO 93722
Asking Price: $333,375
3 Bed / 2 Bath
1,867 SqFt / 6,500 SqFt Lot
No bull, clean, corner with tile roof, formal dining, open floorplan, low maintenance yard, oval tub in master. Best deal in the hood, must have prequal with offer, dont miss this one, sold AS IS no repairs. more info
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N. ROOSEVELT - FRESNO 93728
Asking Price: $189,900
2 Bed / 1 Bath
1,160 SqFt / 6,750 SqFt Lot
Cute tower bungalow with some updating. Needs some elbow grease but otherwise in good shape. Property is sold AS IS-NO REPAIRS, must have prequal with offer. Perfect for first time buyers or income investors. more info
First-Quarter Foreclosure Activity in California
First-quarter foreclosure activity in California increased to the highest level in more than two years, the result of slower home price increases, a real estate information service reported.
Lending institutions sent 18,668 default notices to California homeowners during the January-to-March period. That was up 23.4 percent from 15,122 for the prior quarter, and up 28.7 percent from 14,501 for 2005's first quarter, according to DataQuick Information Systems.
Foreclosure activity hit a low during the third quarter of 2004 when 12,145 default notices were recorded. Defaults peaked in 1996's first quarter at 59,897. DataQuick's default statistics go back to 1992.
"A number of factors are driving defaults higher," said Marshall Prentice, DataQuick's president. "The main one right now is that home values are rising more slowly than they have been the past couple of years, which makes it more difficult for homeowners to sell their homes and pay off the lender. Other factors that influence default activity include the amount of equity people have in their property, the type of mortgage they used and how long they've had that mortgage."
Statewide, the annual rate of home price increases hit a high of 22.8 percent during the second quarter of 2004. Since then, price appreciation has cooled to an annual gain of 12.4 percent in the first quarter of this year. Last quarter, San Diego County saw home values rise 4.8 percent, while its default activity jumped 59.7 percent. San Bernardino County saw home values rise 26.2 percent and defaults increase 17 percent
DataQuick, a subsidiary of Vancouver-based MacDonald Dettwiler and Associates, monitors real estate activity nationwide and provides information to consumers, educational institutions, public agencies, lending institutions, title companies and industry analysts. The numbers count recorded notices of default, the first step of the formal foreclosure process.
The median first-quarter default amount on a primary mortgage last quarter was $9,220 on a loan of $280,000. On second mortgages and lines of credit the median amount owed was $3,386 on a loan of $56,760.
Only about five percent of homeowners who find themselves in default actually lose their homes to foreclosure. Most are able to stop the foreclosure process by bringing their mortgage payments current, or by selling their home and paying the home loan(s) off.
On a loan-by-loan basis, mortgages are least likely to go into default in the Bay Area. The likelihood is highest in the Central Valley and Inland Empire.
While foreclosure properties tugged property values down by almost ten percent in some areas nine years ago, the effect on today's market is negligible, DataQuick reported
Lending institutions sent 18,668 default notices to California homeowners during the January-to-March period. That was up 23.4 percent from 15,122 for the prior quarter, and up 28.7 percent from 14,501 for 2005's first quarter, according to DataQuick Information Systems.
Foreclosure activity hit a low during the third quarter of 2004 when 12,145 default notices were recorded. Defaults peaked in 1996's first quarter at 59,897. DataQuick's default statistics go back to 1992.
"A number of factors are driving defaults higher," said Marshall Prentice, DataQuick's president. "The main one right now is that home values are rising more slowly than they have been the past couple of years, which makes it more difficult for homeowners to sell their homes and pay off the lender. Other factors that influence default activity include the amount of equity people have in their property, the type of mortgage they used and how long they've had that mortgage."
Statewide, the annual rate of home price increases hit a high of 22.8 percent during the second quarter of 2004. Since then, price appreciation has cooled to an annual gain of 12.4 percent in the first quarter of this year. Last quarter, San Diego County saw home values rise 4.8 percent, while its default activity jumped 59.7 percent. San Bernardino County saw home values rise 26.2 percent and defaults increase 17 percent
DataQuick, a subsidiary of Vancouver-based MacDonald Dettwiler and Associates, monitors real estate activity nationwide and provides information to consumers, educational institutions, public agencies, lending institutions, title companies and industry analysts. The numbers count recorded notices of default, the first step of the formal foreclosure process.
The median first-quarter default amount on a primary mortgage last quarter was $9,220 on a loan of $280,000. On second mortgages and lines of credit the median amount owed was $3,386 on a loan of $56,760.
Only about five percent of homeowners who find themselves in default actually lose their homes to foreclosure. Most are able to stop the foreclosure process by bringing their mortgage payments current, or by selling their home and paying the home loan(s) off.
On a loan-by-loan basis, mortgages are least likely to go into default in the Bay Area. The likelihood is highest in the Central Valley and Inland Empire.
While foreclosure properties tugged property values down by almost ten percent in some areas nine years ago, the effect on today's market is negligible, DataQuick reported
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